Delphi Murders trial: Day 6 live blog
INDIANAPOLIS (WISH) — Thursday is the sixth day of testimonies in the trial of Delphi Murders suspect Richard Allen at the Carroll County Courthouse in Delphi.
Allen, 52, is charged with murder and murder while committing or attempting to commit kidnapping in the deaths of 13-year-old Abigail “Abby” Williams and 14-year-old Liberty “Libby” German. The girls’ bodies were found near the Monon High Bridge near Delphi on Feb. 14, 2017, a day after they went missing.
Allen was first investigated in 2017 and again in October 2022. After a second police interview, he was taken into custody.
The trial began Oct. 18 and was expected to continue through mid-November. Sixteen Allen County residents sit as the jury on the case.
Day 6 of the Delphi Murders trial was set to begin at 9 a.m. Thursday.
NOTE: The times listed in the blog headers are the times which the entries were added. Specific times for courtroom events will be listed in the entries if available.
For a brief summary of Day 5 in the Delphi Murders trial (Wednesday), scroll to the bottom of the page.
To view all of our previous trial coverage, click here.
Additional Thursday coverage from News 8
- Delphi Murders judge denies defense request to call ex-prosecutor as witness
- Sheriff testifies in Delphi Murders trial about audio from girl’s phone
5:24 p.m.: Trial ends for day after troopers talk of search of Allen’s home on Oct. 13, 2022
A lieutenant and an investigator for the Indiana State Police on Thursday afternoon revealed for the first time what was found during a search of suspect Richard Allen’s home in 2022.
After a 15-minute break, the trial resumed at 3:40 p.m. Thursday with Indiana State Police Trooper David Vido taking the stand. He’s served as an investigator in the Delphi Murders.
Vido was involved in searching Allen’s home on Oct. 13, 2022, and taking photos there that day and other days. Jurors were shown the photos.
Some photos showed a workbench at Allen’s home that contained knives and box cutters. Knives were also photographed in the master bedroom.
The photos included a gun and ammunition found in Allen’s home. A closet gun case was also photographed.
Coats, including a blue jacket, also were photographed.
Some items, including two dozen box-cutter knives, were taken to a state police post.
Vido, in response to a question from defense attorney Jennifer Auger, said he was not aware of any connections to the murdered girls, Abby Williams and Libby German, from the blue jacket, his car, or the knives that investigators found.
Next to testify was Indiana State Police Lt. Jerry Holeman. He supervised the search of Allen’s home on Oct. 13, 2022. He did an initial walk-through of the home, and then waited outside while police searched inside.
Holeman sat inside a car with Allen while the search was underway. At one point while they were in the car, the lieutenant asked if Allen wanted to fill out a form for items damaged in the search. Holeman said Allen responded, “It doesn’t matter. It’s over.”
Holeman then opened a box containing the gun found at Allen’s home. He gave it a quick check to assure it was safe before displaying it to jurors.
On cross-examination, Holeman confirmed that Allen was a suspect at the time his home was searched. Holeman also noted that a bullet can be damaged when it’s handled for investigations.
This post was updated to correct the spelling of Indiana State Police Trooper David Vido’s last name.
4:03 p.m.: Testimony continues with former Delphi Police Chief Steve Mullin
Court resumed at 1:38 p.m. Thursday with defense attorney Andrew Baldwin cross-examining former Delphi Police Chief Steve Mullin.
Baldwin said to Mullin, “You lied to this jury, before lunch, you lied to this jury.”
Mullin responded “Is there a question?”
Baldwin handed Mullin a copy of the Oct. 13, 2022, interview with suspect Richard Allen. Baldwin asked Mullin to point out exactly where Allen said he may have gone westbound on Carroll County Road 300 North to get to the trails on Feb. 13, 2017.
Mullin responded that Allen said he was travelling in a direction that seemed like it could have been westbound.
Baldwin asked Mullin if he had asked Allen if he went to the trails in a different way. Baldwin said this is because “they are desperate for Rick to have been going west.”
Prosecutor Nick McLeland objected over and over, saying Baldwin was impeding the questions with his opinions.
Baldwin said that “words matter on the stand, correct? Especially if those words impact the timeline.”
Baldwin asked Mullin, “For your theory to work, Richard Allen’s car had to be at the CPS (drugstore) lot between 1:30 p.m. and 4:30 p.m.?”
Mullin said he wasn’t giving direct quotes from Allen.
The jury asked Mullin, “Were you in an interview with Mr. Allen where he stated he didn’t remember which way he took to the trail?”
Mullin responded, “Yes.”
4:20 p.m.: Testimony of Carroll County Sheriff Tony Liggett
At 2:08 p.m. Thursday, the state called Carroll County Sheriff Tony Liggett to the stand. Liggett told the jury he was a detective in February 2017.
Liggett told the jury that when the tip came in from Kathy Shank’s lead, he wasn’t aware anyone had seen the witnesses on the trail, and that he thought that person could be “bridge guy.”
Liggett tells the jury about the process of altering the video on Libby’s phone. Liggett says the “bridge guy” video was “altered to be upright all the time.”
The prosecution showed the video to the jury again. Liggett described what he hears in the video in the following way:
Abby: “Is he right here? Don’t leave me up here.”
Libby: “This is the path, that be a gun, there’s no path here.”
Bridge Guy: “Guys.”
Girls: “Hi.”
Bridge Guy: “Down the hill.”
Liggett told the jury that he researched Allen’s vehicles in 2022 and that he went to CVS and got photos of the car. Liggett said the car was “backed in” at the CVS and “backed in” at the CPS building.
Liggett told the jury about finding Allen’s gun and ammunition and that he found another .40-caliber Winchester cartridge. Liggett said he also found more .40-caliber ammunition from a different brand.
Liggett tells told the jury a blue Carhartt jacket was found.
At 2:33 p.m., defense attorney Brad Rozzi began his cross-examination of Liggett.
Rozzi asked about Liggett being involved in a contentious election in 2022, to which McLeland objected. Liggett responded that it “had nothing to do with me, it was about the murder of two little girls.”
Liggett was asked, “Do you acknowledge that there have been leaks in this investigation?”
Liggett responds that there have been leaks, but he wasn’t referring to just after the investigation started and said, “Some information got out, yes.”
Liggett said he did not check to make sure there were no cameras on the south side of the
Hoosier Harvestore, he only retrieved video from cameras pointing at County Road 300 North.
Rozzi asked Liggett, “You’re aware of the discrepancies in Sarah Carbaugh’s take?” and “Is it possible you’re wrong?”
Rozzi also asked, “Is it possible that Sarah Carbaugh didn’t see anyone that day?”
Liggett told the jury he agreed that the investigation was chaotic in the beginning and that the FBI worked with them and he knew he could call them.
Liggett told the jury that “someone cleared that lead and it shouldn’t have been,” referring to the Shank’s lead. He told the jury that it could be challenging to recall what happened in 2017.
Liggett told the jury he believes Allen acted alone now. “Before, I was open to anything.”
Rozzi asked if the sound from the bridge guy video every came from Allen.
Liggett said there’s no digital evidence that links Allen, but Allen was on his phone at that time on the bridge.
Liggett said, “I don’t know the motive of why he (Allen) came forward.”
Liggett also said Allen was “hiding in plain sight.”
Rozzi questioned Liggett about the Carroll County jail and if Liggett has had a person charged with a violent crime there.
At 3:25 p.m., McLeland began re-direct and asked Liggett questions about the ammunition in Allen’s home.
11:38 a.m.: Testimony from Kathy Shank
Court was back in session Thursday with the jury entering the courtroom at 9:06 a.m. The judge shared that the jury on Wednesday night could briefly access their phones, call their families and view work emails. They have not seen any media coverage.
At 9:08 a.m., the state called Kathy Shank. Shank acted as a “secretary” for the investigation. She would take tipster’s names and information. Shank said she was surrounded by 50 or more law enforcement officers while working the investigation.
Shank told the jury she was given “bankers boxes” of reports related to the investigation and was asked to organize the reports. Eventually these reports took up five filing cabinets. Shank said she created a filing system with names of people of interest, tipsters, etc.
Shank told the jury that in 2020 she was asked to scan every file from the filing cabinets into an electronic database. She said it took her two years to do so. Shank told the jury she did not read the entire context of every file and she entered over 14,000 of them.
She told the jury that when investigators were moving their headquarters she came across some handwritten tips, one of them said a “Richard Allen Whiteman” had “self-reported being on the trails and girls had seem him at the same time.”
That tip was dated Feb. 16, 2017.
Shank said she pulled the written tip about Allen being interviewed in 2017 and changed the file name to “Richard Allen.” She told the jury she made this discovery on Sept. 21, 2022.
Shank told the jury that her job was not to decide if a tip should be followed up on, that she simply was tasked with organizing.
Under cross-examination by the defense, Shank said the mistake on Allen’s name was made before she joined the investigation.
Defense attorney Andrew Baldwin asked Shank, “There was no other tip, to your knowledge, that involved Richard Allen?”
Shank replied, “To my knowledge, no.”
She told the jury there were so many tips that she couldn’t remember individuals.
Baldwin asked, “But you would remember if there was a tip about a man covered in mud and blood walking on 300 North?”
Shank said she could not remember specifics.
The jury asked Shank, “How did you determine the name was incorrect on the file?”
Shank replied that being from the area, she knew there was a Whiteman Drive.
Testimony from Capt. Dan Dulin with Indiana Department of Natural Resources
At 9:59 a.m. Thursday, the state called Dan Dulin to the stand. Dulin is a captain with the Indiana Department of Natural Resources and has been a conservation officer for 26 years.
Dulin had worked across the state but had worked in the Carroll County area for 10 years. He told the jury he became involved with the investigation on Feb. 16, 2017.
Dulin said he was tasked with assisting with and following up on leads. He told the jury he received a lead on Allen, and Dulin contacted Allen by phone. Dulin told the jury that he requested to meet with Allen at his home, then the police headquarters. Allen refused and requested that they meet at a grocery store parking lot.
Dulin said he met with Allen in a grocery store parking lot on Feb. 18, 2017. Dulin told the jury they met, spoke about the lead, and Allen said he was on the trails on Feb. 13, 2017, between 1:30 and 3:30 p.m. He also told Dulin he saw three girls at the Freedom Bridge.
Dulin said Allen told him he was clear that he parked at the old CPS building and walked to the Freedom Bridge and then to the Monon High Bridge. Dulin said Allen told him he was looking at a “stock ticker” while walking.
Dulin said he took handwritten notes, which included Allen’s phone number. Dulin said he wrote up his notes into a Word document and turned it into investigators.
Dulin told the jury that in September 2022 he got a call asking if he remembered interacting with Allen. Dulin said it didn’t sound familiar but he would look through his records. He said he found his documents on his 2017 interview with Allen and found a fishing license for Allen and his wife, Kathy. The licenses had contact information on them.
Dulin told the jury that Allen’s fishing license had his height listed as 5 feet, 4 inches, but it was changed in April of 2017 to 5 feet, 6 inches.
Dulin also told the jury his weight was changed on his license to be lighter; 13 pounds were subtracted.
Dulin said he thought it was uncommon for an adult to change their height by 2 inches.
Prosecutor Nick McLeland asked Dulin if Allen was in the courtroom, and Dulin described Allen.
At 10:35 a.m., defense attorney Brad Rozzi began cross-examining Dulin. Rozzi said Allen called law enforcement in February. Rozzi said Allen suggested meeting at the grocery story because he was already on his way there.
Dulin said he could not recall the appearance or demeanor of Allen during the meeting.
Rozzi said the handwritten notes would be better evidence of the meeting than the electronic report and that Dulin said in a March 2024 deposition that he had “no independent recollection” of what Allen said to him in their 2017 meeting.
Rozzi said that anyone could purchase a fishing license for another person.
Dulin testified that he was also in charge of calling phone numbers that pinged off of cell towers during the time of the crime. He said he canvassed the crime scene the day before he met with Allen.
Dulin told the jury that while he was at the scene he found branches piled up with blood on them.
Rozzi asked Dulin if he saw deer standing in the woods hear the bridge.
Dulin said there were.
Rozzi asked if it is not uncommon to find shell casings in the woods.
Judge Fran Gull stepped in and said to Rozzi, “If you’re going to impeach him, impeach him properly.”
Rozzi asked Dulin if he was familiar with “Smith & Wesson.”
Dulin said he was.
At 11:06 a.m., McLeland asked Dulin about the credit card used to purchase Allen’s fishing licenses.
Dulin replied that he did not know what username was used to purchase the licenses.
Dulin told the jury in re-direct by the defense that he had not thought of Allen between 2017 and 2022.
At 11:13 a.m., the jury asked Dulin, “What was Allen’s hair like?”
Dulin replied that he didn’t know.
Court took a break at 11:18 a.m.
Testimony from Delphi Police Chief Steve Mullin
Court was back in session at 11:35 a.m. as the state called former Delphi Police Chief Steve Mullin for the third time.
Mullin said he got a call from Richard Allen on Sept. 21, 2022, and then he reached out to Dulin to ask if there was any additional info. Mullin said Dulin forwarded information to him and Carroll County Sheriff Tony Liggett, and after learning there were two cars registered to Allen, he went to Hoosier Harvestore to look for them.
He told the jury that Tony Liggett went to the CVS and found Allen’s car and then they looked for it on the Harvestore footage.
Mullin said Liggett looked at the video and found the vehicle matching the description. The timestamp was 1:27 p.m. Feb. 13, 2017.
Baldwin interjected, telling Mullin that “it’s only your opinion” that your car matches.
Mullin responded that he believes the car in the video was Allen’s. He said the “general shape of the car was the same,” as were the taillights, bumper, rims (black sports rims with spokes).
The jury was shown a 9-second video of the vehicle as it passed from east to west, followed by close-ups of the car.
Some of the car’s major identifying features — including the license plate and vehicle identification number — were not visible on the security camera footage. The time on the security camera footage and info from Dulin’s meeting match up, according to News 8’s Kyla Russell.
Mullin said he and Liggett went to Allen’s house on Oct. 13, 2022, and told him they wanted to ask questions about the Delphi investigation.
He told the jury that Allen agreed to go to the police department and was taken there in an unmarked car and in plainclothes.
They arrived at the police station, where Mullin said he asked Allen what he was doing on Feb. 13, 2017.
Allen said he went to his mom’s house in Peru, returned to Delphi, and picked up a jacket, went to the trails around noon, and left at 1:30 p.m.
According to Mullin, Allen told police he drove his Ford Focus car to the old DCS building, parked there, and went to the trails. He said he was wearing as a blue/black Carhartt jacket, blue jeans, and a skullcap.
Mullin said Allen told police he saw three girls on the bridge and was “looking at his stock ticker.”
Allen then said one of the girls “appeared to be older” and that she was “babysitting.”
Mullin told the jury he showed Allen a photo of “bridge guy” and that Allen responded, “If the photo was taken with the girl’s camera, it couldn’t be him.”
The former police chief said Allen agreed to let him look at the phone, but then got angry and walked out of the interview. After that, Allen was taken back to his house.
Court took a lunch break at 12:06 p.m.
11 a.m.: Flurry of orders from Judge Fran Gull
- Order returning equipment: Judge Fran Gull returned cameras and equipment to members of the media, after the court confiscated them for violating decorum rules.
- Order prohibiting defense use of sketches: Gull granted the prosecution motion to prohibit the defense from using the composite sketches of ‘bridge guy’ in the trial.
- Evidence stipulations: The prosecution and defense have agreed that certain evidence may be admitted to the trial without having to have an expert or witness verifying its origins or confirming a chain of custody. These items include videos of suspect Richard Allen while in custody, medical records and items collected at the crime scene.
- Jury instructions: Gull released the instructions the jury will receive when the trial is nearly concluded. Those instructions can be read below.
- Motion to quash subpoena: Robert Ives, the former prosecuting attorney for Carroll County, asked the court to deny the subpoena calling him to testify about his previous work on the case.
- Kegan Kline transport order: The court has arranged for transportation for Indiana Department of Correction inmate Kegan Kline to come to the Carroll County court to testify.
9 a.m.: Court is set to begin
News 8’s Kyla Russell was at the Carroll County Courthouse to share the latest developments in the Delphi Murders trial.
8 a.m.: Crowd waits to enter courthouse
A crowd of people waited for the Carroll County Courthouse to open. Only a few members of the media and the public are allowed to watch the trial each day.
Brief summary of Day 5 in the Delphi murders trial
Wednesday began with a motion from Richard Allen’s attorneys to admit evidence regarding Odinism and the theory that the girls were murdered in a “ritualistic killing.”
In September 2023, the defense filed a memorandum claiming that members of a pagan Norse religion, called Odinism, hijacked by white nationalists, ritualistically sacrificed Abigail Williams and Liberty German.”
The court struck down the Odinism theory last month. Gull has not yet ruled on the latest motion.
The first witness was Dr. Roland Kohr, who performed autopsies on Abby and Libby’s bodies. He described the wounds each girl had. He said the girls did not have blatant defensive wounds or sexual trauma.
Kohr said the girls could have been wounded with a box cutter, according to News 8’s Kyla Russell. This sparked a back-and-forth with the defense, which argued that Kohr’s original report said the girls were wounded with a serrated edge.
Allen’s attorneys accused Kohr of changing his story without telling them.
Second to testify was Sarah Carbaugh, who told the court she saw Bridge Guy walking alongside the road “covered in mud and blood” around 4 p.m. on Feb. 13, 2017, says News 8’s Kyla Russell.
Carbaugh said she recognized the photo of Bridge Guy as the man she saw covered in blood and mud, but that she waited three weeks to notify police because she was scared.
The defense questioned Carbaugh about alleged discrepancies in her descriptions over the years in police interviews. She also claimed a section of her June 2017 police interview was missing.
The state then called Christopher Cecil, commander of the Indiana Internet Crimes Against Children Task Force who spearheaded wo reports on Libby’s cell phone activity.
Cecil said the phone was being used by both girls on the day they disappeared. He told the courts which apps had Libby and Abby’s logins.
He said the the phone was last unlocked around 2:07 p.m. and the Bridge Guy video was taken at 2:13 p.m. At 2:14 p.m., someone tried to unlock the phone with a fingerprint. 2:32 p.m. is the last known movement of the phone.
Libby’s phone stayed on and received messages until at least 10:30 p.m. Although it wasn’t turned off, it stopped receiving messages until 4:33 a.m. on Feb. 14. When asked why this happened, Cecil replied, “I don’t know.”
When asked if the 23 electronic devices seized from Richard Allen in 2022 connected him to Abby and Libby, Cecil said no. He said that nothing linked Allen to the girls, other than having searched for info about the case, Russell reports.
The prosecution pointed out that Allen had a different phone in 2017 not included in the seize. The defense responded that Allen did not have his phone from 2017 in 2022.