INDIANAPOLIS (WISH) — Day 13 in the trial of Delphi Murders suspect Richard Allen began Friday morning at the Carroll County Courthouse in Delphi.

Allen, 52, is charged with murder and murder while committing or attempting to commit kidnapping in the deaths of 13-year-old Abigail “Abby” Williams and 14-year-old Liberty “Libby” German. The girls’ bodies were found near the Monon High Bridge near Delphi on Feb. 14, 2017, a day after they went missing.

Allen was first investigated in 2017 and again in October 2022. After a second police interview, he was taken into custody.

The trial began Oct. 18 and was expected to continue through mid-November. Originally, 16 Allen County residents sat as the jury on the case, but one juror was dismissed on Oct. 25.

Tune into News 8 and follow our live blog throughout the day for the latest developments.

NOTE: The times listed in the blog headers are the times which the entries were added. Specific times for courtroom events will be listed in the entries if available. These notes are compiled from photographs of written notes provided by reporters in courtroom and emailed to the WISH-TV news desk.

For a brief summary of Day 12 in the Delphi Murders trial (Thursday), scroll to the bottom of the page.

To view all of our previous trial coverage, click here, and follow News 8’s Kyla Russell on X as she covers the trial live from Delphi.

• More Delphi Murders trial on WISHTV.com

5:54 p.m.: Former police chief, former sheriff testify

A pool reporter shared notes from the late-afternoon session. The trial had resumed at 3:20 p.m. Friday.

Steve Mullin, the former Delphi police chief, took the stand. Mullin was chief in 2017, when the bodies of teen girls Abby Williams and Libby German were found. He’s now an investigator for Carroll County.

The first question to him from the defense team for suspect Richard Allen: How important would you say it is to preserve evidence?

“It’s important to everyone,” Mullin said.

Defense attorney Andrew Baldwin then asked, “How important would it be to alert the defense if there’s missing evidence?”

The prosecution objected to the question, leading to a sidebar of the prosecution and defense team at the judge’s bench. Baldwin implied evidence in the Delphi Murders case had gone missing, and that fact was being kept from the prosecution. Baldwin said he wants the jury to understand how Mullin’s credibility could be in doubt.

Returning to questions from Baldwin, Mullin admitted “important” interviews of “dozens of witnesses” in the Delphi Murders investigation from Feb. 14, 2017, and sometime in early March of 2017 were not made available to the prosecution or defense. “In August, discovered the problem,” which involved a digital video recorder, Mullin said, according to a pool reporter’s notes. The former police chief said the videos were “lost” and later recovered, but they didn’t have audio.

“There was nothing I could do to recover the interviews,” Mullin said.

Mullin drafted two undated reports about the missing interviews.

However, the former police chief said, both the prosecution and the defense team had those interviews that were available.

Baldwin asked, “Was there a single person that was reinterviewed from these missing interviews?”

“I believe there was, but I don’t recall,” Mullin responded. He said he couldn’t answer without refreshing his memory.

The defense team didn’t learn about the missing interviews until February of this year.

The questioning from Baldwin next turned to Brad Weber. The Carroll County resident lives off County Road 625 West, just outside of Delphi, and owns the property near the Monon High Bridge where the girls were killed.

The former police chief said he met with Weber in August of this year, but didn’t tape-record the interview. “I could have but I didn’t,” Mullin said.

Weber had testified Wednesday that he worked the first shift at Subaru near Lafayette and was at work on Feb. 13, 2017, the day of the murders. Weber said he was at work from 5:41 a.m. to 2:02 p.m., and his drive home was approximately 20-25 minutes.

The next questions to Mullin involved whether his interview with Weber saw any inconsistencies. “Yes, there is some conflict about it,” Mullin said.

Next, Baldwin alluded to the police interview of Allen. “How long have you believed that only one person was involved in the murders of Abby and Libby?”

“Since the arrest of Richard Allen,” Mullin replied.

“Before that, did you believe there were more (people involved in the crime)?” Baldwin asked.

“It doesn’t really matter what I believed,” the former police chief said.

Baldwin later tried to asked questions of Mullin about two witnesses, Betsy Blair and Sarah Carbaugh, who were on the Monon High Bridge trail the same day as Abby and Libby. The prosecution objected. After a sidebar, the trial moved ahead.

Just after 4 p.m., Baldwin asked Mullin, “Do you believe sticks were placed on their bodies?”

“I don’t know,” Mullin replied.

Later, Mullin was asked about a camera at the trail. The former police chief said the camera recorded video but no audio. On Feb. 14, 2017, in the “wee hours,” Mullin said, “It showed that there was someone in front of the camera on the day that the search was taking place. The person was in front of the trail cam, pictured in the trial cam.”

The former police chief said the trail camera is located west of where the girls’ bodies were found.

After the girls’ bodies were discovered in 2017, tips were taken through a special process set up by a group of law-enforcement agencies. Mullin testified they’d received only one tip about Allen.

Mullin also testified that he did not know why it took so long to process DNA from the crime scene.

In August 2019, Indiana State Police released a short video and audio clip from Libby German’s phone in which a person was heard saying, “Down the hill.” The full video has been previously shown to the jury.

Baldwin asked if the law-enforcement groups got any tips from the clip released in August 2019. Mullin said “perhaps” hundreds of tips were received.

Baldwin also asked if Mullin believed Allen ever “returned to the scene.” Mullins replied, “I don’t know.”

Next, Baldwin asked how many times Allen confessed before being moved — reportedly for his safety — from the Carroll County jail to Westville Correctional Facility.

“None,” Mullin replied.

In the cross-examination from the prosecution and the redirect from the defense team, Mullins later provided the following information:

• Weber had consented to a test of his Sig Sauer gun. It was determined that gun was not connected to a cartridge found at the crime scene.
• Mullin remembers details of the August contact with Weber because he’d reviewed text messages.

Next came questions from the jury.

Mullin revealed investigators later identified the person seen on the trail cam; that person’s name was not shared. Mullin also said the place where the bodies were found could not be seen from the trail cam. He said trail cam’s timestamp was accurate.

On another question, Mullin said he believed that the place where the bodies were found was where the girls died.

The next witness was Tobe Leazenby, who was the Carroll County sheriff from 2015-2022. He’s now a chief deputy for the sheriff’s office.

Leazenby testified he’s always thought only one person was involved in the girl’s deaths. Defense attorney Baldwin, however, noted Leasenby’s August 2023 deposition, and Leasenby replied, “Trial information was multiple or at least two.”

Baldwin asked Leasenby, “You felt 10 months after his (Allen’s) arrest that at least two people were involved?”

That drew three objections from the prosecution team. Special Judge Fran Gull overruled the last objection.

Baldwin then asked Leasenby if he knew of anyone who believed more than one killer was involved. The prosecution again objected, but the the judge overruled the objection. Leasenby said Detective Tony Liggett, who is the current Carroll County sheriff, believed more than one killer was involved, based on a 2017 conversation.

“Why did they think that?” Baldwin asked.

“It was based upon the totality of the information provided to investigators at that time period,” Leasenby said.

In cross-examination, Leasenby affirmed Liggett didn’t “have details.”

Leasenby also told the prosecution he’d not personally investigated any murders during his career, but was involved in murder investigations at lower levels.

Motions addressed

Next came a motion from the defense to have inmates in Indiana Department of Correction facilities to be transported. The defense also noted its latest motion to admit evidence of Odinism, a modern pagan religion and an Old Norse religion. A third motion asked for a witness, an FBI special agent who is out of state on assignment, to appear remotely.

The judge granted a motion for inmate Jesse James to be transported to the courtroom in Delphi.

She denied the motion to allow testimony about Odinism.

Gull also denied any witnesses via videoconferencing.

The trial will resume at 9 a.m. Saturday.

5:48 p.m.: Judge rules jury will hear no testimony about Odinism

News 8’s Kyla Russell reports that Delphi Murders Special Judge Fran Gull has ruled that no testimony about Odinism during the trial of suspect Richard Allen.

Gull again denied a renewed defense requests to present testimony about Odinism, Norse paganism, and ritualistic killing.

The judge also will not allow testimony about potential other suspects.

The judge’s decisions came after arguments in court late Friday afternoon. The defense team had asked for a ruling on their motion, which had been made days earlier, before they proceeded with additional witnesses before the jury.

3:09 P.M. Testimony from defense witnesses

Court is back in session at 1:05 p.m.

At 1:10 p.m. the defense called Brad Heath.

Heath tells the jury he lives just outside Delphi and is 70 years old. He worked for Reliable Exterminators and retired 5 years ago.

Heath says he managed company business for the Delphi area and surrounding spots. He describes doing a job at a company called Anderson’s and the scans of the building he did on Feb. 13, 2017. His last scan was at 2:06 p.m.

Defense attorney Brad Rozzi hands Heath a report he requested that shows what Heath did that day at that stop. The report refers to Heath seeing a vehicle at 8:45 a.m. the morning of the murders. He noticed it was in the same location that afternoon. Heath said the car was half-way down the road near the CPS building, parked about two feet off the road.

Heath said it was an older car and looked out of place. He said he went to law enforcement a week after the crimes to tell them after he realized what happened. Heath said he talked to law enforcement a few times over the years at his own prompting.

Heath said he recently spoke to law enforcement about having seen a car that looked like it was “in a movie.” He says the car was a 4-door that looked like it was from the 80’s or 90’s. He said he was 150-250 yards away when he saw it. The defense shows a photo of the car.

Heath said he had no recollection of cars being in the CPS lot or not. He said he saw different angles of the same car at different points throughout the day.

The prosecution had no questions for Heath.

At 1:28 p.m. the defense called David McCain. McCain said he lives just outside of Delphi. He says he has lived there 20 years and is 79 years old. McCain says he is a long-time volunteer and was a project manager for the Monon High Bridge Trail.

McCain tells the jury he went to the bridge many times as a child and started planning to develop the trail in 2013. He said he’s walked the bridge many times and was out there just a month ago.

McCain said he was on the trail and bridge on Feb. 13, 2017. He said he got to the trails around 2 or 3 p.m. and parked at the Mears entrance. He said he saw no other cars there and walked to the high bridge. He said he took photos and walked just the beginning of the bridge. McCain said the bridge is 65 feet above the water and you can see it clearly below.

He tells the jury he used a camera, not a phone, to take photos that day. He said he did that for less than a half hour. McCain said he saw a couple while there, he said it could have been before or after he went to the bridge. He said there may have been people off in the distance that he saw, but only passed the couple.

McCain said he left before 4 p.m. He said he was surprised at the number of people at the Mears entrance when he returned to his car.

McCain tells the jury he did not see pedestrians on 300N when he left. He said “someone shouted to me, ‘have you seen the girls?’” when he was leaving the entrance.

He said that evening he was at a community meeting and some “emergency people” said they were investigating missing kids. McCain said he became concerned about the girls and called the sheriff’s office to say he was there that day.

McCain said two FBI agents and one ISP agent came to his house and interviewed him. He said he gave them the photos from his camera and “SIM” card.

He said two or three years later he was called and asked if he had seen a certain car in the distance of his photos. McCain said he never got his “SIM” card back.

At 1:50 p.m. the state began their cross-examination.

Prosecutor James Luttrell shows McCain a document of an FBI interview. Defense attorney Andrew Baldwin objects, saying it is improper.

Judge Gull allows McCain to look at the document. Luttrell asks him if he left at 4 p.m. or shortly after. He says yes.

McCain says the man shouting at him that day was a pretty large man in a “bright orange jacket.” He said something like “have you seen the girls?” in a concerned way.

At 2:05 p.m. the defense called former Delphi Fire Chief Darrell Sterrett. This is the 8th witness for the defense.

Sterrett says he grew up in Delphi and graduated in 1985. He has been a firefighter for 36 years. He was the Fire Chief on Feb. 13, 2017.

Sterrett said he was at the station house around 6 that night because there was a training even. He said that word came in that two girls were missing.

He said he went to the Carroll County Sheriff’s office, where joint command had been set up. Sterrett said they tried to figure out where they were and sent people to search for them.

He tells the jury that they were directing the search through dispatch and that Mullin and Lazenby were in charge of the search.

Sterrett is shown a document that kept track of where firefighters, cadets and officers were that day. He said they are an entirely volunteer department but everyone was at the station that day because of the training event.

Sterrett tells the jury they were notified about the girls at 7:01 p.m. He said he left to go to unified command at 7:10 p.m. He says about six of the volunteer firefighters were at the bridge that night, around 9:30 p.m. He took his personal vehicle and the volunteer firefighters took two firetrucks.

Sterrett said he entered the trails off of 625W and drove to the “end of it” and parked. He said there were houses on the left. He said he parked in someone’s yard. He said one vehicle drove up to the bridge, but the others walked.

Sterrett tells the jury that they needed the search to be “boots on the ground.” He said he thought the girls were scared and cold. “It was not an organized grid type search” he said.

He says the searchers were separated by varying amounts of distance. He said they stayed more “southwest of the bridge, only on the east side a bit.”

Sterrett said he left the scene around 1:30 a.m. or 2 a.m. on Feb. 14, 2017. Sterrett corrects himself and says he left at 2:30 a.m. on Feb. 14.

Sterrett said he ordered a search north, south, east and west of the bridge. In a deposition he said there may have been higher intensity lights from vehicles, but he is not sure.

He says the night was very dark, that the firefighters were using department issued flashlights, which had a spot or flood setting. He said someone may have shined a light on Deer Creek to check for the girls.

Sterrett told the jury that nobody from his team saw anything floating in the creek and did not hear anyone shout out saying they saw anything.

He said he could hear people during the search.

The prosecution does not cross-examine.

The jury asks two questions:

“How long ago did you give your deposition? Did you get a copy at that time?” Sterrett replies that it was three weeks ago and it was mailed to him.

“Did you search the area southeast of the cemetery?” He replied “I did not personally.”

Court is in recess at 2:55 p.m.

12:41 p.m. Defense request for witness to appear remotely

The defense has filed a motion today requesting an FBI Special Agent be allowed to testify remotely. They want Adam Pohl, who is currently working in San Antonio Texas to testify. They say he is a necessary witness for the defense and that his testimony and his testimony will only take 30 minutes.

Pohl is currently the election crime coordinator for the FBI San Antonio, Texas division.

The defense says it is extremely difficult for Pohl to appear in person given his current job responsibilities pertinent to the November 5th election. He was previously assigned to Indiana.

That motion can be viewed below.

12:25 P.M. Court in session, more discussion of surveillance videos

At 11:31 a.m. court is back in session. Defense intern Max Baker is back on the stand. The defense immediately requests a sidebar. The sidebar lasts 10 minutes before the jury is back in the courtroom.

Baker tells the jury there is an issue with the security and camcorder videos of Allen because the prosecution provided them to the defense without the needed time stamps.

Rozzi says “we are dealing with what we were given by the state.”

Judge Gull tells the jury that they will break for lunch until 1 p.m.

Court is in recess at 11:52 a.m.

11:31 a.m. Court back in session, discussion of surveillance videos of Allen

At 10:40, court is back in session. There is an immediate sidebar, then the jury enters.

At 10:46 the defense calls Max Baker, who is an intern who works for the defense. He is a graduate of IU and has worked on the case since Nov. 2022.

He tells the jury he heard Harshman’s testimony. Reporter notes that at this point Allen’s wife Kathy leaves the courtroom with three others.

Baker testifies that he has reviewed most of Allen’s phone calls and videos from Westville. He says he was asked to compile video of Allen at Westville and put it on a flash drive. The prosecution is continually objecting.

Baker says the video was given to the prosecution as part of the discovery. He says there are two main video formats, camcorder video and security camera video. The camcorder video is video outside of Allen’s cell and the security video is inside Allen’s cell. The camcorder video has sound, the security video does not.

Baker tells the jury the camcorder video did not have a time stamp, it was just put in folders with general timeline information. He says he tried to piece it together as best as possible.

He explains that the in-cell video on the flash drive is from the 15th of every month from Nov. 2022 to Dec. 2023, aside from April to July of 2023 where there is more video than just on the 15th.

The defense asks to admit the video. They also show spreadsheets that explain the videos by date and time the video was taken.

The prosecution objects and there is another sidebar.

Court is in recess at 11:10 a.m.

10:35 A.M: Court is in session for Friday

At 9:01 a.m. the jury entered the courtroom and court is back in session. Judge Gull tells defense attorney Brad Rozzi that they will chat about his motions he’s filed on transports during the lunch break.

Gull says the jury has once again had supervised contact with their electronic devices.

The defense calls Christopher Gootee and the state immediately calls for a sidebar. The sidebar lasts 9 minutes.

Gootee tells the jury he is a Hammond, Ind. police officer and has background as an EMT. He says he has training in interviewing witnesses and suspects.

Defense attorney Jennifer Auger asks him about the importance of correctly documenting interviews. Gootee says he was with an FBI gang response task force or GRIT. They focused on kidnappings.

Gootee tells the jury that GRIT assisted with the Delphi investigation by canvassing neighborhoods and conducting interviews. He says he worked on the investigation for over a week.

Gootee says he spoke to Brad Weber during the investigation. Auger asks Gootee what Weber said about where he went after work on February 13, 2017.

Auger asks Gootee what an FBI 302 is, Gootee says it is a report from an interview. Auger shows him an exhibit, which is an FBI 302 report from his interview with Weber.

Gootee says he spoke to Weber on Feb. 19, 2017. He tells the jury that he doesn’t know what Weber said, despite looking at his own report. Auger finishes her questions, the state does not cross-examine.

At 9:27 a.m. the defense calls Dr. Deanna Dwenger. Dwenger tells the jury that she oversees the Department of Behavioral Health at the Indiana Department of Corrections. She says she has been director of the department since 2021.

Dwenger says that her main job is to oversee the IDOC’s contract with the contractor who actually does the employing for the IDOC’s behavioral staff.

Dwenger tells the jury that she generally knows who Richard Allen is. She confirms that Allen was transferred out of the Westville Correctional Facility. She says the solitary units at Westville and the Wabash Valley Correctional Facility are similar.

She says she has not personally met Allen and did not make the decision to move him and does not know who did.

Dwenger says that Dr. Monica Wala, the assigned psychologist for Allen, told her after she was assigned to Allen that she had a special interest.

Dwenger tells the jury that Wala told her about listening to Delphi podcasts and recommended it to her in early 2023. Reporter note: (Allen went to Westville at the end of 2022.)

Dwenger says she knew that Wala had visited the Monon High Bridge, but says it was before being assigned to Allen.

Dwenger tells the jury she thought it was unusual to visit the crime scene of someone you work with, but said that Wala talked to her direct supervisor about the issue more.

The state requests another sidebar about the use of the words “crime scene.”

Dwenger tells the jury she is familiar with Dr. Martin and that he is a psychiatrist and administers medication. She says Dr. Martin is no longer working at the IDOC.

She says Allen was assessed in Indianapolis and was assigned a “D” code in mental health. She explains that a “D” code means a person that would benefit from a specific and personal therapy treatment plan.

Dwenger tells the jury she doesn’t know if there’s ever been safekeepers in either Westville or Wabash Valley. She says she doesn’t know why he was assigned there. She says she knew there was video (cameras) in his cell and that worried her. She said she recommend the video be removed, but it didn’t happen.

Dwenger tells the jury that solitary confinement can impact mental health and that it is not unreasonable to think being in solitary would have a negative impact over time.

She says 30 or more days of solitary happens only if the inmate is severely mentally ill. She tells the jury the 30-day rule exists to keep people from being in there too long.

Dwenger tells the jury that Allen was “gravely disabled.”

She explains the difference between mental health monitoring and mental health treatment. She says treatment is more focused on actual therapeutics. She says that the therapeutic setting at Westville was not ideal.

Dwenger confirms she was on a team that discussed Allen’s care, though was not directly treating him. She described herself as a “sounding board” for those who were.

The state requests another sidebar after Rozzi asks Dwenger about solitary confinement for mentally ill patients.

At 9:56 Rozzi ends his questioning and prosecution attorney Stacey Diener begins her cross-examination of Dwenger.

Dwenger confirms Allen was not severely mentally ill and “began to decompensate” until he was in the Westville Correctional Unit. She says he was first contacted about Allen in April of 2023. She says that’s when his core team was formed.

The first contact she describes was coming from Dr. Wala asking if Allen could have a meeting with his wife. Dwenger tells the jury that at that point Wala told her that Allen was faking it.

Dwenger tells the jury the team was called an MDT, a multi-disciplinary team. She explains that “gravely ill” means you aren’t able to take care of yourself.

She says it got to the point where it didn’t matter if he was “faking it,” and they needed to intervene.

Dwenger explains Haldol shots to the jury. She says it helps with psychosis symptoms and being “gravely ill” is a symptom of psychosis.

Rozzi objects and says it was a leading question.

At 10:04 a.m. Diener ender her cross-examination and Rozzi begins his re-direct.

Diener asks for a sidebar. Reporter notes Judge looks frustrated. State objects again after Rozzi asks another question. Both end and the jury asks questions.

Question 1: Does the DOC every place safekeepers in general population? Dwenger says yes.

Question 2: Could it be possible Allen was faking so he would not be moved to general population? Dwenger says it was possible but don’t know for Allen.

Question 3: Did you hear threats to Allen from other inmates yourself? Dwenger says no.

Question 4: Could a person slip in truth of a confession, even when faking it? Dwenger says it is hard to tell but yes. She says you can tell if people are faking it based on the organization of thoughts if the conversation is goal-oriented and chronological. She says Allen was not having delirium.

Question 5: What is the typical process for safekeepers with severe mental illness? Dwenger says the same as general.

Question 6: What is the primary obligation to a safekeeper working with an inmate with severe mental illness? Dwenger says same as general.

At 10:23 a.m. court was in recess.

9 a.m.: Court session begins

News 8’s Kyla Russell is back in Delphi for continuing coverage of the double murder trial of Richard Allen.

The prosecution rested its case just before 5 p.m. Thursday. Allen’s defense team called two witnesses before court adjourned for the day.

The defense said at the end of the day that they were working out exactly how they will move forward on calling witnesses as they wait on Special Judge Frances Gull to rule on a few key motions.

Brief summary of Day 12 in the Delphi Murders trial

Master Trooper Brian Harshman, a 30-year veteran of the Indiana State Police, was the first witness called on Thursday. Harshman said he became involved in the Delphi investigation in April 2020, just over three years after the murders.

Harshman told the court he became “the phone guy,” meaning he monitored Allen’s communication from inside custody to the outside world. He says he monitored calls, video chats, and texts. He says he has listened and relistened to 700 hours of Allen’s calls.

The trooper told the jury he believes the voice in the “Bridge Guy” video is “absolutely Richard Allen’s.”

Harshman testified that Allen either calls his wife or his mother, adding that he makes “incriminating statements.”

The prosecution started by playing several phone calls between Allen and his wife, Kathy, including an outgoing call placed on April 3, 2023:

• R. Allen: I did it. I killed Abby and Libby.
• K. Allen: No, you didn’t. No, you didn’t, dear. Don’t say that. You weren’t feeling well; they messed up your meds.
• K. Allen: Why would you say that?
• R. Allen: Maybe I did (commit the murders)?
• K. Allen: They are messing with your mmind, something is not right. Don’t ever say you did it. I know you didn’t.
• R. Allen: I think I did.
• K. Allen: They’re fooling wiuth you, trying to get you to say things.

Richard Allen then asked his wife to apologize to the girls’ families, to which she replied, “Just don’t talk anymore.”

In many of the calls, both Allen’s wife and mom, Janice, assure him he did not kill the girls, also telling him he was mentally ill.

They asked him at times not to talk about the crimes over the phone. Allen also mentioned in the calls several times that he felt he had lost his mind inside Westville.

The prosecution rested its case just before 5 p.m. and the defense called its first two witnesses.

First up was a woman named Cheyenne Mill. Mill and her best friend were hiking on the Monon High Bridge trails on Feb. 13, 2017, and crossed the bridge around 2:50 that afternoon.

She said she “never” saw anything strange in the woods that day, but recalled she and her friend passed an “overweight” man on the bridge.

She said she took a few Snapchat photos of the afternoon and later told police where she was — she also said she never saw Richard Allen.

The second and final witness to testify Thursday was Teresa Liebert. Liebert lives near the bridge and said she saw someone “strange” near mailboxes close to her house. She also said she reported it to police.

The defense said at the end of the day that they were working out exactly how they will move forward on calling witnesses as they wait on Special Judge Frances Gull to rule on a few key motions.

However, Gull ruled that she will allow jurors to hear about Allen’s Google search history, but denied a request to let the jury see photos of Allen from before his arrest.